Canyons Yahoo Group
6/5/2008
Rich Rudow wrote:
I know this is off the beaten path for many on this group but I
thought I would share just in case someone is heading to Grand
Canyon. I just returned from a 9 day Grand Canyon backpacking trip
around the Kanab / Deer Creek area and thought I would post the
condition of a few canyons:
1 – Deer Creek slot – flows are high but not dangerous if you’re
experienced with flowing canyons. The flows are high enough to
prevent ascent up canyon after the first 15′ rap so it’s definitley a
one way trip. This canyon had a truely epic flash last July that
cleared tons of rock fall debris off the ‘patio’ and I was worried
that the bolts would be toast. Well ... in general the bolts faired
well. We only backed up one bolt with a natural rock stopper in a
crack at the 3rd rap. As many of you already know, this is a really
special canyon. BTW—wear a wetsuit or risk death. Lots of
swimmers after the first rap and it’s very very cold right now. The
last rap down the falls is 180′ with the last 60′ or so putting you
in the falls. Swimming disconnect is required.
2 – Indian Hollow Canyon – water flowing in the Supai. It’s non–
technical if you have some climbing skills to get through three
Coconino ‘spots.’
3 – Scotty’s Hollow – nice flows from the mouth. We climbed up
canyon to the top of the Redwall. Lot’s of climbing and rope assist
for folks that are less competent climbers is required. The redwall
slot pot holes were partially filled with water—no keeper
situations right now.
4 – Slide Canyon – Ahhh the pool at whispering falls was devine.
It’s probably the very best in Grand Canyon. Some non–technical
climbing required to get to it but its pretty standard stuff if you
made it to this remote area in the first place.
5 – Tapeats Cave – evidence of water flows from the mouth of the cave
but the mouth is not running now. Inside the cave a river is flowing
through the big cathedral room. Water (and air temps) are extremely
cold requiring a thick wetsuit or dry suit to stay alive. Swimming is
required in a few deep pools to get back to the cathedral so be sure
your headlamp is waterproof (and you have a spare in a dry bag). We
used air matresses for floatation and it helped a lot.
Some ‘dummies’ left an old raft in the cave that was full of holes.
We hauled it out to Deer Creek where one of the rafting companies
voluteered to haul it out the rest of the way (Thanks OARS!).
Also did a technical descent of Pipe Creek and a non technical
descent of Phantom Creek 3 weeks ago. Pipe required route finding
skills to get into the drainage below the Tapeats and then three raps
in the Vishnu. We barely made it through with a 50′ rope and 50′
pullcord. No signs of a prior technical descent so if you go please
don’t add bolts since there are planty of natural anchor
possibilities. Bring 100′ rope and 100′ pull cord though. A very
nice slot with a dark character due to the Vishnu Schist. Idyllic
water flows right now.
Phantom Creek is a Grand Canyon ‘classic’ slot at about 4 miles
long. It starts in the Tapeats and then ends in the Vishnu. Water
flows year round but the flows right now are high (as in one way trip
high but not dangerous). There is one 25′ optional rap at the head
of the slot but it;s non–technical from there. Those that like to
climb can bypass the rap on a crack route 30′ downstream of the
falls. Someone left a rope there for a handline when we were there
this trip but prior descents had no rope aid ... so bring your own
for a rap or handline.
Rich
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/5/2008
Ram wrote:
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“I know this is off the beaten path for many on this group but I
thought I would share just in case someone is heading to Grand
Canyon.”
Oh no, not at all. I very much want to hear about all these places! Thank you very much!
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“I just returned from a 9 day Grand Canyon backpacking trip
around the Kanab / Deer Creek area and thought I would post the
condition of a few canyons:
1 – Deer Creek slot –
2 – Indian Hollow Canyon –
3 – Scotty’s Hollow –
4 – Slide Canyon –
5 – Tapeats Cave –
Also did a technical descent of Pipe Creek
a non technical descent of Phantom Creek 3 weeks ago. ”
great stuff. One of these days.
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“Phantom Creek is a Grand Canyon ‘classic’ slot at about 4 miles
long. It starts in the Tapeats and then ends in the Vishnu. Water
flows year round but the flows right now are high ”
It was a crazy road trip with some buddies back in 1975. I usually
consider my 2nd desert trip, the one to Arches, in April of 1976 that
closed the deal for me on being a regular desert guy, but I had done a
south rim Grand Canyon trip the year before as my first experience.
Had pushed ¾ of a mile (?) up Phantom. It was very beautiful! The
idea of having to swim to get past stuff! Crazy!
I often wondered how high it stayed nice? Do you have any pictures
from the trip? More insights on the area above where I got to?
How does one access the top. I would love to hear and see more Grand
canyon stuff.
Ram
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/5/2008
Rich Rudow wrote:
Ram previously wrote:
“It was a crazy road trip with some buddies back in 1975. I usually
consider my 2nd desert trip, the one to Arches, in April of 1976
that
closed the deal for me on being a regular desert guy, but I had
done a
south rim Grand canyon trip the year before as my first experience.
Had pushed ¾ of a mile (?) up Phantom. It was very beautiful! The
idea of having to swim to get past stuff! Crazy!
I often wondered how high it stayed nice? Do you have any pictures
from the trip? More insights on the area above where I got to?
How does one access the top. I would love to hear and see more Grand
canyon stuff.”
Hey Ram, here is a TR I did on a descent of Phantom Creek maybe four
years ago:
LINK (unavailable)
I’ll try to post up some recent pics soon (I’ve been doing too much
exploring and not enough posting lately.
This TR has the GPS route to make it a 10 mile loop hike from Phantom
Ranch. There are lots of photos in it too. That slot is GREAT the
entire 4 miles. I’ll never get tired of that one. Many Grand Canyon
slots are very very hard to access due to the scale of the place, but
Phantom Creek is an exception. Many on this group would like it
lot.
Quick directions: a route to the head of Phantom Creek slot starts at
Bright Angel Campgroup spot #1 at Phantom Ranch. Proceed up the
route to a place called ‘Utah Flats’ on top of the Tapeats layer and
then curve around Cheops Pyramid until you can drop into the head of
Phantom Creek. Distance to the head of the slot is about 5 or 6
miles with about 2,000′ of elevation change (1,500′ up, 500′ down).
The slot starts just above a 25 waterfall formed by a chokestone and
loses around 1,000 feet over 4 to 5 miles. It’s a water wonderland
with constant wading in the creek and swimming nice pools.
Rich
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/5/2008
Rich Rudow wrote:
Ram previously wrote:
“Well, I am always looking for something to do in February, when I am
finally sick of the real cold canyons season. Death Valley was great
this year. What kinda 10 day program I can I put together for the
big ditch? I have seen so many nice pictures and reports from Scott,
Tood and you. I wanna, i wanna, i wanna. I imagine the places aren’t right next to each other and with the
north rim closed, many options removed. Sigh. Thanx for the
inspiration Rich”
Ram, Feb can be real cold in Grand Canyon too but it’s all solved
with a thick wetsuit. Set aside some time next Feb and we’ll have
a ball. Be ready to hike with a heavy pack though ... nothing in
Grand Canyon is gained without some serious off–trail hiking fun
first. And there is a way to access some nice North rim canyons in
Winter via the low route out of Fredonia if we decide that North rim
canyons are on the agenda.
If you have not done Deer Creek I would encourage an earlier descent—say this Fall. The Park Service is making big noise about closing
it to canyoneering for 2009. I’m trying to get more info now and see
how I can get involved before they finalize anything ‘silly.’
Rich
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/5/2008
Ram wrote:
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“Ram, Feb can be real cold in Grand Canyon too but it’s all solved
with a thick wetsuit. Set aside some time next Feb and we’ll have
a ball.”
Sold! Middle of the month works for me!
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“Be ready to hike with a heavy pack though ... nothing in
Grand Canyon is gained without some serious off–trail hiking fun
first.”
Riff raff barrier. I assume there will be some driving. Marble Canyon is in the middle of the drives? Nat and Todd have talked of good things there. Phantom on the south And if there is a way to access some nice North rim canyons ... the big semi circle. Overnights and day trips. Cold? It ain’t Freezefest! At least I hope not. Yeah, I can get behind this. Yeah!
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“Winter via the low route out of Fredonia if we decide that North rim
canyons are on the agenda.
If you have not done Deer Creek I would encourage an earlier
descent—say this Fall. The Park Service is making big noise about
closing it to canyoneering for 2009. I’m trying to get more info
now and see how I can get involved before they finalize anything
‘silly.’”
Thanx for your efforts here. What are the issues? Outside chance for
the fall. Is the issue with Deer in February high water? Water not
locked up in snow then? Access trailhead?
Ram
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/5/2008
Scott Patterson wrote:
Ram previously wrote:
“Well, I am always looking for something to do in February, when I am
finally sick of the real cold canyons season. Death Valley was great
this year. What kinda 10 day program I can I put together for the big
ditch? I have seen so many nice pictures and reports from Scott, Tood
and you. I wanna, i wanna, i wanna.”
Ram, I wouldn’t mind a Feb trip if interested. I think Feb would be ideal for canyons like Badger, Tanner, Hot Na Naa or the North/Rider loop. I think Rich was interested in the North/Rider as well? Tiger Wash might be interesting.
In the Western Grand Canyon, canyons like Fern Glen or Willow Canyon look awesome as do the side forks of Tuckup. The only real canyons I’ve done in the area are Stairway and Scotty’s Hollow and both were reallygreat. Maybe even the Cork Spring Fork might be worth looking at.
If you are ever interested, I’d be interested in showing you some places I know as well as exploring the ones I don’t.
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/5/2008
Rich Rudow wrote:
Ram previously wrote:
“Riff raff barrier. I assume there will be some driving. Marble
Canyon is in the middle of the drives? Nat and Todd have talked of good
things there. Phantom on the south And if there is a way to access
some nice North rim canyons ... the big semi circle. Overnights and
day trips. Cold? It ain’t Freezefest! At least I hope not. Yeah, I can
get behind this. Yeah!”
Definitely can do the big semicircle. There are nice canyons on the North, Marble, and South sides. Our biggest issue will be deciding what canyons to do from the long list. Some of the decisions will get made by trip logistics, weather, etc. but there are always canyons accessable somewhere in Grand Canyon. Big cool place!
Ram previously wrote:
“Winter via the low route out of Fredonia if we decide that North
rim canyons are on the agenda.
If you have not done Deer Creek I would encourage an earlier
descent say this Fall. The Park Service is making big noise
about closing it to canyoneering for 2009. I’m trying to get more info
now and see how I can get involved before they finalize anything
‘silly.’
Thanx for your efforts here. What are the issues? Outside chance for
the fall. Is the issue with Deer in February high water? Water not
locked up in snow then? Access trailhead?”
I’m still trying to get the ‘true’ facts on Deer Creek but here is
what I know now:
1 – the 2008 rules do not forbid canyon descents of Deer Creek
2 – Ranger #1 I spoke to said, “We’re going to close it because
canyoneering folks might drop stuff down the falls and conk the
rafters in the head that swim in the pool below the falls.” It’s a
safety issue in a high use area.
3 – Ranger #2 I spoke to said, “We’re going to close it because
canyoneers are violating a place sacred to the Kaibab Paiutes.” It’s
a religious belief issue.
4 – I spoke to a few rafters at Deer Creek last week and they
indicated that the 2009 rules would forbid rappelling Deer Creek
Falls.
Clearly ... I need to get the ‘true’ facts here but the winds are
blowing in the wrong direction right now. A Fall 2008 descent seems
assured under the current rules but 2009 might be forbidden ... unless
we can educate some Park Service folks. I’ll report back when I know
how to best start the educating process. Todd Martin has voluteered
to help me out on this and we may need some support from others in
this community given the wide range of experience here with Zion park
management. Canyoneering is a foreign concept to Grand Canyon park
management (absolutely no kidding) whereas the park managers at
Zion have learned to accept canyoneering as a valid use of park lands.
Rich
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/5/2008
Rich Rudow wrote:
Scott Patterson previously wrote:
“Ram, I wouldn’t mind a Feb trip if interested. I
think Feb would be ideal for canyons like Badger, Tanner, Hot Na Naa or
the North/Rider loop. I think Rich was interested in the
North/Rider as well? Tiger Wash might be interesting.”
Scott, after our attempt of Twenty–Nine mile canyon got cut short, Todd,
Joe, Luke, Albert and I went back a few weeks later and put it all
together. We descended all the way to the Colorado River (4 raps) with
a single 200′ rope then rafted one mile down stream and exited Fence
Fault to loop back to the vehicles on the rim. The entire canyon was
really excellent and the exit approach was a blast. And it would be a
good one in Feb with a thick wetsuit (the pools were still swimmers).
Ram will want this one on his Marble Canyon ‘to do’ list.
Rich
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/6/2008
Ram wrote:
Scott Patterson previously wrote:
“Ram, I wouldn’t minda Feb trip if interested. I
think Feb would be ideal for canyons like Badger, Tanner, Hot Na Naa
or”
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“The entire canyon was
really excellent and the exit approach was a blast. And it would be a
good one in Feb with a thick wetsuit (the pools were still swimmers).
Ram will want this one on his Marble Canyon ‘to do’ list.”
Sounds great to me. 10–14 days for me. Say we include the weekends of
February 14th and 21st, plus a few days on each end. Lots of folks on
the weekends. A core group, moving around more, mid week. Marble and
it options be good for one of the weekends? The other where? More
Marble? How about that Eaves Chasm that Bo just did sometime in there?
Those scary ledges that Todd, Aaron and Scott did south exposed? Area
accessible? Looked awesome! Maybe Courtney or Bo can suggest a peak or
so ... or better yet join us. Ok, Ok I’m getting all excited. I’ll wait
for the folks in the know to suggest workable programs.
Ram
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/6/2008
Scott Patterson wrote:
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“Scott, after our attempt of Twenty–Nine mile canyon got cut short Todd,
Joe, Luke, Albert and I went back a few weeks later and put it all
together. We descended all the way to the Colorado River (4 raps) with
a single 200′ rope then rafted one mile down stream and exited Fence
Fault to loop back to the vehicles on the rim. The entire canyon was
really excellent and the exit approach was a blast. And it would be a
good one in Feb with a thick wetsuit (the pools were still swimmers).
Ram will want this one on his Marble Canyon ‘to do’ list.”
Man, too bad I missed it. It was a great canyon that I’ll have to finish some day.
Scott
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/6/2008
Scott Patterson wrote:
Ram previously wrote:
How about that Eaves Chasm that Bo just did sometime in there?”
Usually the road to the TH is closed in February.
“Those scary ledges that Todd, Aaron and Scott did south exposed? Area accessible?”
East facing, but there is an alternate around them.
Scott
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/8/2008
Rich Rudow wrote:
Ram previously wrote:
“Sounds great to me. 10–14 days for me. Say we include the weekends
of February 14th and 21st, plus a few days on each end. Lots of folks
on the weekends. A core group, moving around more, mid week. Marble and
it options be good for one of the weekends? The other where? More
Marble? How about that Eaves Chasm that Bo just did sometime in
there? Those scary ledges that Todd, Aaron and Scott did south exposed?
Area accessible? Looked awesome! Maybe Courtney or Bo can suggest a peak
or so ... or better yet join us. Ok, Ok I’m getting all excited. I’ll
wait for the folks in the know to suggest workable programs.”
Ram, I’ll plan on it for mid Feb! I’ve explored the Royal Arch
drainage extensively (where Elves Chasm is located). It’s a haul to
get in and out of there. Sometimes the road is open and sometimes
weather (or mud) will close it. The best and shortest access is via
the Pt. Huitzil route. This is a really cool route with great Indian
petrogylphs and a hole in the Coconino (complete with ancient Anasazi
ladder) for the descent. There are two big raps—around 180′ and
150′. It’s a very very nice canyon with lots of pools to enjoy on
the way down to the Colorado. But ... probably not a great choice for
Feb. Here is a TR I posted three or four years ago on that one—
check out some of the videos for the splash fest:
LINK (unavailable)
The scary ledges were on the entrance to Buckfarm canyon. That
canyon is usually accessible in Feb. Often the challenge though is
getting out of Grand Canyon after a technical descent. For Buckfarm
we rafted across the river and exited Eminence Break. Scott
Patterson posted a nice TR for this one recently and I posted one
here too:
LINK (unavailable)
We will need to select canyons carefully to keep the backpacking
logistics under control (and keep from killing people who opt for the
14 day death march ... I mean vacation.
I’ve probably spent 150 nights backpacking in Grand Canyon and would
be happy to assemble a hiking itinerary to see some very nice
canyons. I know some other folks on the board here could add to the
canyons list too.
BUT ... since Grand Canyon is so hard logistically to get to some of
the really cool stuff (and we all only have so much vacation), I’ve
been pondering an alternative for a ‘canyoning fest.’ How about a
raft trip where we can access some of the really cool stuff (mostly
near the river) without the tough kind of backpacking that might wear
a lot of folks out after a few nice canyons? I mentioned this to
Todd and Scott when we did Buckfarm and there was some interest.
Besides backpacking in Grand Canyon I’ve done four rafting trips—first one was in 1989. I know a few of the raft outfitters and we
could potentially charter a motorized raft loaded with canyoneerers
only! A really sweet canyon or two everyday while we make our way
toward Lake Mead. How about it? I would need 12 to 15 people to
pull off the charter and ball park costs would be about $250 per
person per day. Would include transport in and out of the canyon and
all food—yes ... you eat really good. And in Feb fires are allowed in
a fire pan the rafters bring along. Nothing better than reflecting
on a great day canyoneering around a camp fire. We bring the beer
and the ropes!
Anyone?
Rich
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/8/2008
Ram wrote:
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“Ram, I’ll plan on it for mid Feb!
Here is a TR I posted three or four years ago on that one—
check out some of the videos for the splash fest”
Very nice. I wanna
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“The scary ledges were on the entrance to Buckfarm
canyon.
LINK (unavailable)”
I saw Scott’s. This is cool too.
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“We will need to select canyons carefully to keep the backpacking
logistics under control (and keep from killing people who opt for
the 14 day death march ... I mean vacation. ”
What I envisioned is a series of day trips toward the weekends with a central camp that can accommodate a nice sized group that could break up into smaller groups and do hikes of different difficulty and length. Then meet back up and tells lies around the fire in the evening. Then during the week, get after it with a smaller group of marginally employed folks for longer, perhaps overnight fare. Just a thought.
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“I’ve probably spent 150 nights backpacking in Grand Canyon and would
be happy to assemble a hiking itinerary to see some very nice
canyons. I know some other folks on the board here could add to the
canyons list too.”
Love it!
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“BUT ... since Grand Canyon is so hard logistically to get to some of
the really cool stuff (and we all only have so much vacation), I’ve
been pondering an alternative for a ‘canyoning fest.’ How about a
raft trip where we can access some of the really cool stuff (mostly
near the river) without the tough kind of backpacking that might wear
a lot of folks out after a few nice canyons? I mentioned this to
Todd and Scott when we did Buckfarm and there was some interest.
Besides backpacking in Grand Canyon I’ve done four rafting trips—
first one was in 1989. I know a few of the raft outfitters and we
could potentially charter a motorized raft loaded with canyoneerers
only! A really sweet canyon or two everyday while we make our way
toward Lake Mead. How about it? I would need 12 to 15 people to
pull off the charter and ball park costs would be about $250 per
person per day. Would include transport in and out of the canyon and
all food—yes ... you eat really good. And in Feb fires are allowed in
a fire pan the rafters bring along. Nothing better than reflecting
on a great day canyoneering around a camp fire. We bring the beer
and the ropes!
Anyone?”
Rich, I am known for torturing folks with offers of trips. You got me
this time. Normally I wouldn’t consider it, even though it is
something of a dream for many a desert adventurer. I long ago settled
on volume versus expensive trips. Getting my 120 days a year on the
cheap. The costs for this adventure would be more than half a year’s
adventure budget for me and something would have to give big time
somewhere. Lets just say a ‘big maybe’ and let me ask some more
questions ...
How many days would it take to do it? Start Lees, end Mead? Would I
get killed in those rapids? How much of each day would we need getting
down river and how much time really spent canyoneering? And how does
that affect the amount of time spent total? I get motion sick VERY
easily. Who would sit next to me?
Quite the offer. Anyone else intrigued?
Canyons Yahoo Group
6/8/2008
Rich Rudow wrote:
Ram previously wrote:
“Rich, I am known for torturing folks with offers of trips. You got
me this time. Normally I wouldn’t consider it, even though it is
something of a dream for many a desert adventurer. I long ago
settled on volume versus expensive trips. Getting my 120 days a year on the
cheap. The costs for this adventure would be more than half a years
adventure budget for me and something would have to give big time
somewhere. Lets just say a ‘big maybe’ and let me ask some more
questions ... ”
120 days/year—WOW ... WOW ... WOW. I wish I could find that much
time. Totally awesome Ram.
Ram, this is the ‘volume’ approach for Grand Canyon canyoneering but
it’s definitely the expensive approach too. For example, if we
wanted to descend Fishtail Canyon and then Deer Creek on a
backpacking loop trip off the North Rim we would need four days and a
few very hardy people to pull it off. Only a few canyons in Grand
Canyon can be done as day hikes I’m afraid—mostly in Marble
Canyon. And I would be perfectly happy with a few day hikes and a
few two or three day trips to get to really cool canyons and then
back out. But rafting opens up almost all cool canyons in a fast
sequence without weather issues on the Rims and tough off–trail
backpacking for access.
Ram previously wrote:
“How many days would it take to do it? Start Lees, end Mead?”
Could be done in as little as seven days or as much as 16 depending on time and money. Ideally we would use a 35 foot motor rig because you can move faster between good canyons. Start at Lees Ferry and end at Mile 187 below Lava Falls. Helicopter out to Bar 10 Ranch on the North Rim then puddle jumpper back to Kanab, Vegas, or Cliff Dweller’s Lodge at the top of Marble Canyon. Helicopter and Aircraft included in price. Another option is to get out at Diamond Creek at Mile 225. You would not go all the way to Mead. I’ve done Lees to Mile 187 in as little as 7 days and Lees to Diamond in as long as 16 days.
Ram previously wrote:
“Would I get killed in those rapids?”
Nope—I did one trip with my 71 year old father–in–law in 2006 and he did great. The rapids are a blast.
Ram previously wrote:
“How much of each day would we need getting
down river and how much time really spent canyoneering?”
Depends on the number of days for the trip but if we baseline a 10 day trip then we would need to make 19 miles/day. The river current averages 4 mph and the raft can do 10 mph on the gas. So ... we would need roughly 3 hours/day to make miles and would have around 8 hours/day to canyons in Feb. We could stage the stops and camps to get one really nice canyon per day. In a few areas we might get two.
Ram previously wrote:
“I get motion sick VERY
easily. Who would sit next to me?”
Plenty of hurrl space on the raft. Besides, any collateral damage
would get washed off in the next rapid.
The rafting rules just changed this year and now more rowing trips
are going down than motor trips. I would need to explore if the
motor trips can run in Feb or not. A row trip would be fun but would
take too long to get to the good stuff—somewhat defeating the bang
per buck factor.
Hey ... I’m in for backpacking if that’s what we end up deciding on but
the raft approach will get way more canyons done without all of the
vehicle shuttle issues, Feb weather on the canyon rims, and hiker
wear and tear.
Rich
Canyons Yahoo Group
8/8/2008
Rich Rudow wrote:
Ram previously wrote:
“Great stuff. The pictures in an old Kelsey guide drew my attention
here. Just have not gotten around to it. i know there are potential
access issues in the future. Did i ask already if this can be
accessed in February? I think i did. Mind is going”
Well ... maybe. Sometimes the snow will cooperate and sometimes not. There are very remote ways to get there to avoid the North Rim snow but they would eat up way too much time and limit opportunities in other canyons. My fingers are crossed though. Access to the canyon at all is being challenged and I don’t yet know if Feb 08 will be closed or not. Boy ... I hope not.
Ram previously wrote:
“I have heard that most run laps on the thing and that there is a
nice slot above and a ledge on the edge that stays with you long after
you leave.”
It takes two or three hours to get through. The first time is longest to rig the anchors of course. So two laps can done easily in a day but that slot takes it out of you because of the cold swift water and deep pools to swim. Not to mention the 180′ rap while being pummeled by the waterfall. Ok ... you can avoid the waterfall pummeling if you choose to limit the fun factor. And if you do the 180′ rap your heart will still be beating fast when you come to the narrow ledge and you won’t even notice it. The ‘outer slot’ and area called the ‘patio’ are about as idyllic as it gets.
Ram previously wrote:
“Will do. Reading comments from you, Todd, Scott and others on the
logistical challenges of the GC canyons and the remote nature that
creates excites me a great deal. I am really looking forward to the
February trip and I hope we can do some of these wilderness routes
in conjunction with the day trip, social Marble Canyon ventures that we
talked about, to add inclusiveness for others who want on the trip.
Gonna be great.”
Feb is going to be great. I’m all in! I’m sure some of the other
Grand Canyon fans on the group will be in too. We’ll be able to
piece together a nice mix of wilderness routes and day hikes
depending on what folks want to do. Be forewarned though, some of
the trips will require a pack raft for each person to cross the river
to effect an exit out of the canyon. A short raft trip in Grand
Canyon after descending a great slot is almost as fun as the slot
itself! Damn ... one more piece of ‘canyoneering’ gear to buy. $75
at REI and you’re in business. Grand Canyon tested!
http://www.rei.com/product/652377
Ram previously wrote:
“What is the name of the book? Link to it? We have chatted and he
seems a wonderful sort. Maybe he will join us in February? ”
Here is his book:
Day Hikes from the River by Tom Martin
By the way, I recently bought the Third Edition at REI in Tempe. I
owe Tom some Olo Canyon beta from our Oct trip and I’ll ask him then
if he wants to join the Feb fun.
Rich
Canyons Yahoo Group
8/8/2008
Ram wrote:
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“It takes two or three hours to get through. The first time is
longest to rig the anchors of course. So two laps can done easily in
a day but that slot takes it out of you because of the cold swift
water and deep pools to swim. Not to mention the 180′ rap while
being pummeled by the waterfall. Ok ... you can avoid the waterfall
pummeling if you choose to limit the fun factor. And if you do the
180′ rap your heart will still be beating fast when you come to the
narrow ledge and you won’t even notice it. The ‘outer slot’ and
area called the ‘patio’ are about as idyllic as it gets.”
Nice and comfy in February temps, no doubt!
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“Feb is going to be great. I’m all in! I’m sure some of the other
Grand Canyon fans on the group will be in too. ”
Two full weeks? Yeah, yeah, yeah?
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“Be forewarned though, some of
the trips will require a pack raft for each person to cross the
river to effect an exit out of the canyon. A short raft trip in
Grand Canyon after descending a great slot is almost as fun as the
slot itself! Damn ... one more piece of ‘canyoneering’ gear to buy. $75 at REI and you’re in business. Grand Canyon tested!
http://www.rei.com/product/652377”
The 3 lb 8 oz is reasonable (ugh!). The 220 lb capacity? With pack!! Ummmmmmmmmmm.Scary movie
Rich Rudow previously wrote:
“Here is his book. By the way, I recently bought the Third Edition at REI in Tempe. I
owe Tom some Olo Canyon beta from our Oct trip and I’ll ask him then
if he wants to join the Feb fun.”
Great. Thanx for the efforts
Ram
Canyons Yahoo Group
8/8/2008
Rich Rudow wrote:
Ram previously wrote:
“The 3 lb 8 oz is reasonable (ugh!). The 220 lb capacity? With pack!!
Ummmmmmmmmmm. Scary movie/”
Yep ... you won’t catch me in that scary movie without my wetsuit, a
PFD, and a tether between me and my pack (with lots of floatation in
the pack). The Colorado River is 48 deg. Death is certain if you
stay in that water too long. I’ve tested the capacity though. I
weigh 180 pounds and my pack was around 30 to 40 pounds during the
times I’ve crossed the Colorado. Actually works quite well but you
can’t even run a riff in this rig much less a named rapid without a
certainty of a bad experience. It’s made for crossing the river or
short stretches of CALM water only. Portage anything that’s not
calm. Of course, there are lots of raft options if you want to add
to the weight. Believe me though ... you don’t want the weight
getting in or out of the Grand Canyon.
Rich Rudow
© 2008 Rich Rudow, Ram & Scott Patterson